The Musical Innertube - Volume 2, Number 171 - Jason Nark

JOHN

On his Philadelphia Inquirer web page, Jason Nark, our guest today on the musical inner tube, says, “I write stories and narratives about the outdoors and rural parts of Pennsylvania and New Jersey. The trails, towns and people far from city life.” Jason is one of the best writers at the Inquirer, which has a lot of great writers. He writes about the everyday, often miraculous things in life. Old steam trains, a Jalen Hurts lookalike contest, the biggest pumpkin in the world, a woman looking for the man who called her beautiful outside an Eagles game, the revamp of an iconic roller coaster in Asbury Park and much more. In fact, my favorite all time article - if we get a chance to, Jason, I have to ask you about it - was about demolition derby, and the great all-time quote is: “You know, demolition is a lot like chess, only sometimes you're on fire.”

JASON

Oh yeah.

JOHN

One of the great you know, you die for a quotation like that. And today, we're gonna talk with Jason about a particular article. It appeared on December the 7th. It's titled As hunting numbers fade, PA families and friends keep their camp tradition alive. And it has so much about Pennsylvania and about hunting culture in it. Jason, welcome to the Musical Innertube, first of all.

JASON

Thanks for having me.

JOHN

You bet. So, your article has so much heart, so much fellow feeling for the places and traditions. So, I want to start just by asking. Where did you grow up? In a culture in which you went hunting with Dad every Sunday?

JASON

So, it's interesting. My dad is a big hunter. I have only officially gone hunting once with a weapon. And I did that to sort of appease him. But as a child, he took me with him, I don't know, because he didn't have a babysitter or something, but I wound up with him. He's lamented sometimes in the past that, like, I didn't take up hunting, but I don't think he fully appreciates the influence he had on me, because he would take me with and put me up in a tree and then he’d walk 50 yards away in his own tree. And he would give me, like a notepad and, like, crayons, and tell me to, like, write down things I see. And when I looked at it, like, you know, it seems just something my dad would do to have a kid waste time in the woods, but like just being there, observing nature, is almost like what I love to do most as a reporter. I don't know. I like to think that some of it rubbed off.

JOHN

So this was both your personal immersion in hunting culture, and your training school for being a journalist, maybe.

JASON

Yeah, I'd like to think so. I mean, I really got deep into nature, writing at Penn and grad school, I took a class, and it just sort of like propelled me further into that world.

DON

John and I grew up in Southern California and there's just not a lot of hunting in Southern California.

JASON

OK.

DON

And then I moved all over the United States in very small towns, working in radio and. Eventually wound up in here in Pennsylvania in Harrisburg. And one of the things that always delighted me was the Monday after Thanksgiving was hunting holiday. That was the first day of hunting season and all the kids had off school so that they could do what your dad did. Go with their fathers and uncles and brothers out to hunt. And that benefited me, because when I took the family to my in laws for Thanksgiving, everybody else had to hit the highways with all the other traffic on Sunday to go home and be there on. We had an extra day off.

JASON

Yeah, yeah.

DON

So we drove home on Monday when when the roads were relatively clear, but it also was an interesting thing to see how families were involved in that and how hunting was more than just a guy and a guy. Looking for. Buck out in the wilderness. It was a family thing. The families got together and it was almost like a continuation of Thanksgiving. I want to say.

JASON

For sure. It's a. I know when I started writing about rural Pennsylvania, I told my editors like, there's gonna be a lot of hunting stories and not just because, like, I'm interested in hunting, but it it. It's like big news for people out there, like when we and we found that the. When I write about hunting like it does pretty well, people read it because there's not a lot of outlets. It uh, and ironically like the Philadelphia region. Probably does not have as strong of a hunting culture. Even the the surrounding counties. Mean there's deer? But it's just sort of not as big. I bet the schools in like local counties might not have had off as much on the Monday after Thanksgiving, or that has changed in recent decades. That's all part of the. The issue I guess is like younger. They're the state thinks younger generations in more urban areas just sort of have no tradition whatsoever of hunting. And if it's not getting past down to you. I think it would be like it's. It's an intimidating hobby to just get into. I think on your own.

JOHN

Or I think so. If you were going to do it, first of all, there's the technological part of understanding a gun and how to assemble and disassemble clean.

JASON

Sure.

JOHN

How to shoot it?

Speaker

Yeah.

JOHN

Gun safety. That's a whole world unto. And I'm sitting here as a as a white. Paper nibbling, pencil necks, intellectuals. You know, I've never shot a gun. Yeah. And I'm not alone. It's not that I dislike hunting culture. I'm a. I'm an avid fisherman, so I hunt.

JASON

Yeah, me too. Yeah.

JOHN

Fishing is. It's just not. It's not the same thing, right? But they might be right that there is this cultural divide in the state. You know, but you don't really have to drive that far out of Philly once you're about an hour and a half out of Philly.

JASON

Yeah.

JOHN

You know you're there.

DON

Yeah. And it's not too too long. Mean I I took a. Not too long ago, to see a friend of mine outside Harrisburg and I was maybe K15 minutes outside the city when I was passing state hunting land state gaming lands.

JASON

Oh yeah, yeah.

DON

So they're all over the. It's a pretty rural state as a. I I remember 1 political operative said it was Pennsylvania was. Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Alabama in between.

JASON

Yeah, I think James Carville.

JOHN

Yeah, James, car.

DON

That's. That was Carville.

JASON

And some pencil tucky. It was called, yeah.

DON

But you know that speaks to what we just went through in our election here in 2024. And that was that. People were were going with a populist who talked to their their needs.

Speaker

Yeah. Sure.

DON

According to you know ex. That that Trump talked to people who seemed forgotten. And I I would say that a lot of the people in Pennsylvania who live in the rural areas consider themselves forgotten.

Speaker

Yeah.

JASON

Absolutely. I mean, so I I basically was given this beat in 2016 after Trump won because editors were thinking. Hey, uh, what the heck happened? Going on in Pennsylvania.

JOHN

Welcome to the world, editors.

JASON

And. I think one of the editors said, hey, you like to fish or something or you you go you go camping, do you want to do this? I. And but I wanted to sort of like start on the ground level and not. Just like. Treat people like they're aliens it and like, do the world diner. So I sort of tried to do a little bit of everything, but what you just mentioned. I had. Family was originally from this coal town called Shimokin. Wait a long, long time ago. And you know that's where they mined anthracy coal. And there's really no more anthraxy coal left. Mean it's not a case of like. Regulation push to the way it's just, we sort of just took it all out of the ground and I was in shimokin, I guess before the 2020 election and there was a lot of signage that. Said Trump loves coal, like Trump digs. And I was like genuinely confused because I felt. Hey. Do you think he could do for? I mean, there's no more coal here and it sort of became like, oh, well, that doesn't really matter. Matters that he, like my grandfather, was a coal miner. Feels good. Someone not like, denigrate. You know, it was like a such a revelation to me, like, oh, OK. It's really just an emotional feeling so. That matters. I mean it like, you know, they were mad that. I guess Hillary Clinton that said something about like shutting down dirty coal and I was like, wow, OK. Yeah.

JOHN

Well, I feel that Hillary Clinton's. Entire sort of campaign. Had a 10 year when it came to yeah the the section of the populist were talking about and I'm not being a critic in saying that. Think it's sort of an established fact that nobody, nobody had thought, well, these people are important enough to to really go among. Rightshi I I. I don't remember her dining. You know, fur cap and coat and dropping around that around acts of I don't think that happened.

JASON

It's interesting too, isn't she? She has, like some scratton roots, I think too. Or.

JOHN

Absolutely she does. Yeah. Yeah, we're in her. In our our present.

DON

But again, yeah, there's a whole level of of people who are politically progressive and wanna do quote the right thing. As far as as the environment. And getting, you know, moving forward on on a lot of social issues, that sort of thing. Have somehow wound up in the elitist bucket and they are city dwellers who don't have an idea of what goes on in the real world. And at least that's that's the the way. The divide is shaped up now.

Speaker

Yeah. Yeah.

DON

But I I think. The best way to describe how this whole thing works out is if you would please describe the hunting camp that you went to that you describe in this article. I think that sort of encapsulates what we're talking about.

JASON

Well, the cab I went to was. Founded in like 1972 by a family, a steel mill family from like outside of Pittsburgh, Aliquippa, which is like, really famous for their. School football. And they were an immigrant family from Lebanon. And I guess. You know anyone who came to Pennsylvania could sort of get. It was a way to acclimate, I guess. Know you become a hunter like the other guy, said the steel mill. And they all sort of fell in love with it and. And. You know, going out and like opening day and like driving from home and then going back is sort of like the ground level, but like, getting the camp is what, like all of these men like attain, like, that's what they sought. And these guys, you know, got proper. It was super cheap. They built like a little cabin and it became like this family refuge. There's thousands of them in Pennsylvania. They're. There's a lot in New Jersey where I live, but they're they're they're it's a like it's a different situation, New Jersey, but there's a lot here too.

JOHN

Yes, there. It's just going to make sure I was just thinking. One that's not far from my house. And I feel after having read your article, I feel like asking somebody can I hang out with you guys? Won't. Ahead, but I'll I don't want to get anybody hurt. Especially me. But.

JASON

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's ones in the. There's a lot in the Pine Barrens.

JOHN

Yes, this is what I'm talking about.

JASON

Yeah, they don't. They're. They're like I mentioned that they're like a different architecture there. Like they look more like cinder block buildings. Not really houses so much, but you.

JOHN

Know they're very. They're very much encampments aren't. They're not meant to stay a long time at just long enough to keep the snow off while you're. Out in the woods? Yeah.

Speaker

With this, this House I.

JASON

Visited it like it burned down in 2003 and they replaced it with like a double wide trailer, which, you know, as a reporter I was. Was not like my ideal. I wanted, you know, this cozy cabin or something, but. It really. I mean, they really like, fill the place with love and memories and. It's yet.

JOHN

Well, that's the part I wanted to ask you a little bit about, Jason, because. I was so moved by these men's account of of how they felt about going to the camp and being in the camp. And as as children listening to stories from their dad. Can't just the act of camping being around while people were telling hunting stories, learning about life? And. You talked. You used the word transmission. That's transmission. That's that's culture being. Passed on it. You were. Uh, you're in the presence of. I'd love you to talk a little bit more about was that moving for you to experience that?

JASON

Well, yeah, I mean well.

JOHN

Yeah, yeah.

JASON

Off it was not easy to find a group that would let me do what they did the the David family because obviously I don't need to tell. That people don't trust. The media, especially in that world, it's like, you know, I feel like I've earned it by now, but they still don't. Wanna get involved? And they don't believe they think like I I have some ulterior motive. And I basically always pitch like I just want to hang out and listen, you know, I'm not gonna really spend too much time bothering you. My my main goal as a reporter is to sit back and listen and they they got it and. You know, it was like, no, nothing was off the record. It was just sort of. I was like, hanging out with them. It was great. You know, obviously. See, they got pretty. I mean they they seem to like, as I mentioned, they people go to camp and leave some of the worries behind. Yeah, it's nice. You know it's. One of my editors asked me.

JOHN

She's like, where are?

JASON

All the women, when this is happening. Was like, oh, I never. I never thought of that, but I'm sure. They're taking a break from all. Men. So I don't know.

JOHN

I feel another article coming on Jason. It might be a little bit even harder to report on, but. You. What happens when the men are away?

DON

Hunt hunting widows.

JOHN

I think. And I'm sure I'm sure that there's a female culture that has grown up around around it too, where women. Men who have in common the fact that there are men are at. Camp and maybe some of the women. Mean it would be hard, wouldn't. It to have a mixed camp. Maybe there are some?

JASON

Well, I'll tell. Yeah, I mean, I know. It gets a little gross. Yes, of course. They might not clean the toilet till like the day they're leaving the. Kind of thing.

JOHN

No, I think it's gonna be like the campfire in blazing saddles where everybody takes a turn to release noxious fumes and.

JASON

Yeah, and there's a lot. That a lot of bacon and beer and. They I mean I I had. They made me this Hobie. That was just like layers and layers and layers of, like salami and ham. It was great.

JOHN

There's a great photograph. One of the guys making it. And there was.

JASON

Yeah, gigantic.

JOHN

Way that he makes it, he toasts it.

Speaker

Yeah.

JOHN

Right. And there's. It's it's a loving. It's really a ritual which I think is, by the way, if anybody doesn't think just to our listeners, if anybody thinks that Jason NARC is not a sympathetic report. Order. He has a wonderful ear and and he loves to be in a place and let what's going to happen happen and I just. I was so moved. To hear the people talk about how they felt.

JASON

Yeah. And I you know, I've been he the guy who I had the most contact just with his Anthony and he. Yeah, he was great. Sort of spearheaded it. You know, I think I made a post on the Facebook group where like 90% of the people were just like chewing me apart and and he kind of cut through that. You know I will post other things that I've written to give people an idea of like what I. I did a story a few years ago about ginseng hunting in Pennsylvania, which was like my perfect stories, but I don't know anything about the subject. I learned along the way because I had no idea. That Pennsylvania had this, like, really? Distinct like almost underworld. A hobby of ginseng collecting. It's very valuable. Sure. You know, I had guys ask me if I would wear a blindfold and if I would wear a camo. I said I will wear a camo, but I am not wearing a blindfold and I need to be able to tell. Someone back home. Where I'm going. I'm not gonna like. They got me pretty nervous, but that was really fun too.

DON

That sounds weird, but you know, again, as I've said, I I've worked with a number of people who are hunters and have. Again been. Their fathers were. They're taking their kids out and that sort of thing.

Speaker

And I can't tell.

DON

You the the emotion that goes into it, you have to experience that in somebody, but they wait for the beginning of hunting season. Some of them are. I want to say dual weapon hunters because bow hunting season for deer starts before.

Speaker

Yeah.

DON

Rifle hunting season, so they'll go. With their. Sure. Very, very few deer with bows, but they love the they just love the experience of get getting their gear together.

JASON

Yeah.

DON

Getting up very early in the morning, driving to the camp, setting up the camp.

JOHN

Yeah.

DON

Getting all dressed in their in their hunting, which you describe in the in the article is being layers and layers of clothing and then going out and sitting in a tree stand for hours waiting for deer to come by. Figuring out which one they could they might have. Shot at. And then hopefully bagging that. But sometimes being in that tree stand for two or three days is not not coming home with with any deer.

Speaker

Yeah.

DON

But still the ritual is all-encompassing. They love that.

JASON

Yeah. And like, there's even it. Get a. That some of the guys just go to go. Mean they might. Go out for a few hours because it was really cold that weekend and just come back and hang out and, like, watch football and it's like just as much about the hanging out.

JOHN

I want look at just for a moment. Because that's I want to look at your head. Line and justice before we went on the air, folks, I had said that I really admired the headline. The headline was as hunting numbers fade, PA families and friends keep their camp tradition alive. Umm. Now days and I found out that that. Wrote that headline. That's correct.

JASON

No. So I wrote my first headline was as hunting numbers fade. Pennsylvania families hold fast to camp traditions or something. Uh, it's it's a. Might. Got tweaked a little bit, so maybe I rode. Of. What I like?

JOHN

About this is it it? It balances 2 facts, which is there is this devotion to hunting and devotion to the camp culture. But the hunting numbers are fading. I mean, for many years, Pennsylvania was the state. Think it still is with the greatest number of guns per capita in. Outside of Alaska, I believe so in the end. With that said. As you shown your your article gun ownership nationally and in. Pen C is declining and has been steadily. I'm wondering what they feel about this. The folks who are keeping the traditions alive. You talk about the decline with them and. You know, do you feel the younger hunters are going to continue the tradition?

JASON

I think that's really tough. Yeah, you. A lot of people blame video games, social media. Uh. I think it's like a real little bit of everything. There is less. I mean maybe for the better that there's less acceptance of like. Firearms, and there was decades ago. Or at least a like. A more nuanced understanding of. Arms. Yeah, it's. I mean I I. I agree with a little bit of all of the reasons. Particularly, you know, there's just so many things drawing younger people away and once there's like a gap in the generation, it's almost it seems like impossible to get it back. Like I even see it with my own family. Since I really didn't take up hunting. My kids have. My sons have never done it with my. They probably would enjoy it, but it's just sort of like. If there's like 1 missing link, it's hard to get back. I mean, I see posts were like random guys are sort of. Propositioning themselves to become part of a camp which is also interesting. Like can I 'cause. It's almost like accepting a new family member. Would be really. You know, these guys had talked about like. The years when, like a strange cousin would come and sort of like, throw the chemistry off. And that's like a big. Or if like you know, your sister has a new boyfriend and he wants to hunt and everybody's a little leery of, like, the new guy.

JOHN

Right, Randy, right.

JASON

So it's, I mean it's.

JOHN

Was really afraid he was going to ruin the whole vibe. You know, but you you weren't.

DON

Well, I I brought my gun. I think that through people off.

JOHN

I mean, Jason. First of all, how do you feel about that? About your kids? Probably never.

JASON

But I mean I I don't. I I've like I've. I've never discouraged them from it. My dad is 70. He doesn't hunt, he keeps saying he wants. I'm not sure where ever going to go again, but we went to like the NRA outdoor show in Harrisburg every year and that is like. Such a wild spectacle that he sort of gets a kick out of that and my kids love it. I don't. He's I think that. Could do it. Know the.

Speaker

I have two.

JASON

Boys who are like young adults and they're super into the outdoors and I'd like to think I got them into that at least. Like we camp a lot. They love all that stuff. I don't think they'd be opposed to hunting. But you know, I guess.

JOHN

And the people in this article, the men who? Out hunting. There are their sons interested. Do the men themselves. Is there a sense of endangerment? What would you say?

JASON

I got a sense that there was like there was four men there. And he said they used to have 15 to 20 and you know, the main, the main guy talked to the most like he has a 17 year old son who, like couldn't get up there. 'cause he has a job. It's. And you know, I would think 30 years ago, a 17 year old would like, I'm not working on this Saturday on opening day. And now, like bosses might, it's just different culture. I got a sense that, like you, you know, he's definitely hoping his kids get get involved, 'cause.

DON

Yeah.

JASON

It just becomes a second home in the woods that you don't use that much.

DON

Well, plus I can understand. People having a little bit of reluctance to talk to the media because, oh, yeah, everything that hunting represents is something that media loves to jump on and make a big deal about it. You've got guns. You've got white males getting together.

JOHN

Yeah.

DON

And and hanging out you've got. Animals being killed. You know that that's all stuff that, that, that media that again, if a regular media person gets it. The article that comes out is going to say, you know, this is the most depraved weekend. Think I've ever seen in my life.

JASON

Yeah, yeah.

DON

You know, when in fact it it's a way of. And as you found and as you continue to find in in the various articles that you. That you write. There are people that have done this for generations, yeah.

JASON

Yeah, there's, you know, every now and then there'll be a story of like a Doctor Who kills a lion in Africa and it gets universally, like, condemned. You know, those stories are always way more. Complicated than they seem because you know, a lot of hunters argue that the hunters are the greatest conservationists in the world. Know if that's just trying to defend themselves, but there's there is a part of it, you know, I think. Hunting probably employs like thousands of people in certain parts of Africa, of course. I don't know. It's complicated when it comes to that stuff. I don't think I could ever kill something like a lion, but you know, I will think Pennsylvania needs deer hunting. A lot of.

JOHN

Deer there's no doubt about that I have. Have all sorts of. In my backyard and I don't mind. There are. There are people. My block who do?

JASON

I live in a town where it's. How many deer I? I mean, I'm like, living near a major highway and they find a way to survive in, like, the smallest slivers of land.

DON

Well, again, as as a reporter. I've had to cover a lot of of deer stories in this area, and one of the weirdest I ever did was they were having problems in Gettysburg in the National Park. Deer were coming and eating up the shrubbery, and of course.

Speaker

Sure.

DON

In Gettysburg you have this weird dichotomy because those shrubs were there in 1863 when when when the the battle was going on. And so they're they've been. And now the deer are eating them and. My God. So they employed hunters to come out. Out and send the her.

JASON

They do that in a Valley Forge.

DON

This was just, you know, again this was a big media event. You're sending people with guns out there to shoot deer on federal land.

Speaker

Yeah.

JASON

Yeah.

DON

You know, this became something of a controversy.

JOHN

I mean, I don't know. I must say, Jason, I don't know how anyone could read. Your article and not come away with at least a sense of how important this is to the people who live within that culture, that that they see whatever 1 feels about. Shooting and killing animals and the whole thing as, as Don says, our tendency as journalists to sensationalize every single solitary thing. Right, having put the putting at the site does seem that the star the show really is the heart of this. Deep, atavistic feeling about it that you really do get to it. Very moving. It goes to a really, really deep place.

JASON

That's. I mean, that's always what I'm hoping to get. It's not doesn't. It doesn't always happen, but they were great. They were really, really welcoming.

JOHN

Well, Jason, narc, you have taken us deep into the woods and all sorts of places. New places for the musical inner tube, and I hope for our listeners, and you've really found the. Your great. I love reading your stuff as I've told you before and I hope we can have you on sometime soon.

JASON

Yeah, for sure.

JOHN

All right. Thanks again. And you know, we're a code, OK.

JASON

Yeah, I know. I froze. I froze that week. Yeah.

DON

Stay warm out there. We'd like to have you come back and talk a little bit more about the area you cover in Pennsylvania 'cause. I think it's very important and I think you're right.

Speaker

Sure.

DON

Think it's slowly fading into the background.

JASON

I love. I glad you mentioned Demolition Derby. Love to talk about. That was my favorite story of last year.

JOHN

You are my main man. I love demolition Derby. I I I've. I have to. You, Jason, I am bearing my soul here on the musical inner tube. I love 51 Hudson's. I love that car and they are the demolition Derby car of your and today people still talk about them in in various places and my my uncle had two of them and I used to ride around with him. And I love those cars and I love demolition Derby. I've been to so much.

JASON

Yeah. You know, you find. 1980s nineteen 90s Lincoln Town car, oh Word, Crown Victoria. And they're worth gold in the it'll make them like that.

JOHN

Nothing like a hard chassis.

DON

And if you've ever been in the car when John's driving, you'll know he loves Demolition Derby.

JOHN

So thanks again. We will talk about Demolition Derby with you.

JASON

But that was so much fun, right? Thanks again.