The Musical Innertube - Volume 2, Number 164 - Dick Polman on the results of the 2024 elections

JOHN 

And today on the Musical Innertube, we welcome back, as we said we would, Dick Polman. And, Dick, I'm just gonna ask you: something happened last week. Some people are saying it's important. 

DICK 

Yeah, I think we can probably all agree, yeah. 

JOHN 

People are saying all sorts of things right now. An aggressive change. Just about everything is being promised on one side. What's on your mind?  What are you thinking most about in the wake of election 2024?  

DICK 

Well, once I got over my 48-hour paralysis, that's when I started to think about it. 

DON 

And how much crying was involved in this, Dick? How much crying? 

DICK 

Oh, I thought you said how much wine was involved in it. Well.... 

DON 

Well, yeah, that too, yeah. 

DICK 

No, I mean I think this is - I may just be saying this because I've been a student of history, and I was a history major years ago, and I so I kind of look at things, and maybe it's my instinct to look at things in broad patterns. But I you know, I think we we've reached a historical pivot point in this country. And you know, I think there's a lot of Democrats out there, and people who are who are trying to be optimistic, who are saying, well, we have elections in two years, and we'll get them then, or we have election midterms. And we have presidential election in 2008, and we'll get them then. I don't think it's going to be that easy. I think this is a trend line that is going to take a heck of a lot of time to play out, if indeed it plays out in in our lifetimes, and I don't know, I have no idea whether that's the majority or minority opinion. Any opinion that's been rendered on any of this in the last week inevitably gets, you know, pushed back from somebody somewhere. So, but that's how, you know, that's what I see. I think, you know, I think there's this trend line that's been going on in Western democracies or former Western democracies around the world that people are, they're ticked off at the establishment, quote unquote, or they're ticked off about post COVID inflation and ticked off at incumbent democratic parties, small D, and they're taking it out on them. And I think that has a lot to do, not everything, because I think there's some really dark underbelly of stuff that went on last week in America, but I think it's part of the trend that's international. And I think this crew, the MAGA crew, and the project 2025 crew, and everything that comes with it, and the sort of MAGA-allied media ecosystem, which is I think a huge part of this, they've been playing the long game. And you know, they're not just gonna, you know- everybody's saying, oh, good, we'll just wait for them to overreach. Well, I don't necessarily think that's going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. I think they’re just going to dig in, I think they're going to be further emboldened, and I'm not sure exactly what the opposition should do at this point. And I think, frankly, anybody who's full of certitude talking about on social media or in the media punditry is, is just guessing. So how about that for a wakeup call here? 

DON 

Hey, thanks. I'm gonna go hit the wine now.  

DICK 

Yeah. Well, you know, again, we did look at all of the people, all of the pundits who have been talking since Trump's reelection, about how it happened. And there have been a couple of through lines, the economy, everybody was more worried about the economy than most politicians thought. Even though the Democrats came back and said no, everything's in good shape and we had the Wall Street Journal saying it was a a model economy for the world that didn't affect the price of eggs and the the. 

Speaker 

Mm-hmm. 

DON 

Election did or was affected by the price of eggs and then uh, all sorts of things about how the Democrats have lost touch with working people, and they're now the elite. And the Republicans represent working people. So do you think we're when you talk about a a shift in the paradigm, do you think? They're talking about shifts like that, where Republicans are now talking about working people, and Democrats are are out of. Touch. 

DICK 

Well, they're connecting, you know, they're connecting with working people and we have to ask ourselves why? Why they're connecting. We have to ask ourselves, and I will answer this in a second. And we have to ask ourselves why, given the fact that Joe Biden did a heck of a lot for working people and manufacturing jobs coming back and he's the most pro labor, overtly pro labor president in generations. And he walked the picket line. And here's, you know, and and saved union pensions in one of the major pieces of legislation, and we have Kamala Harris saying, you know, I'm going to, you know, I have a program to help people buy. Their first house. You know people who are sort of on the lower part or the lower middle class part of the scale, why all that? Failed and I think there's. I think there's two reasons. I mean, there's probably 50, but I'll highlight too because we don't have all night 1, is that the Republicans as always, are brilliant at sort of playing the culture war game. I think there's a lot of sort of so-called. Additional values. That lower middle class people, working people, perhaps Hugh 2 and and I I you know this whole notion of that Democrats can be painted as you know hyper tolerant elites who you know believe in transgender operations and and stuff. I mean we saw. We might have talked about this before, you know, we saw the, the, the plethora of ads that ran during the World Series and and a lot of sports events. Just basically Trump's people saying we're for you and the Democrats are for they them. You know, they they're, they're brilliant and have been for generation several generations now playing visceral politics, visceral politics, not necessarily thinking with your head, but you're thinking with your gut and your emotions. And they played they they do that very, very well. Democrats don't, but I also want to say the other part of my answer is I want to go back to this, this mega Allied Media ecosystem, which David Frum, who's a former George W Bush. Aide who? Not. Yeah, he's a commentator now. Sort of the same conservative he he referred to as some years ago as the the info INFUX tainment, the infotainment complex. And I thought that was an excellent way to put it because it's not, you know, it's not information the way those of us. And The Who have been raised with facts and journalism. It's not the way we think of information, but it's information as weapons. And its information so-called information as assertion and as as means to power and and you know you have all these echo chambers sort of, you know, Fox News is only one of them. You know there's the one America network and there's the. So Rogan, podcast and all the other bro podcasts and and and and there's many many more I could start naming, News Nation, etcetera and and that's where a lot of these people were talking about. OK, yeah, all these economic. Numbers. We're, you know? Yeah. And like you mentioned, the Wall Street Journal and The Economist, which said we have the most robust recovery economic recovery in the Western world, but it doesn't matter because the voters or the predominant number of percentage of voters that vote for Trump, they don't see that information or they don't believe that. Information they don't, or they don't read it in the first place, they're getting their. Material. I'll just call it that. They're getting the material from this, this alt media, that sort of plays on their emotions and their grievances and their anger. And so you've had this situation where you know that they believe inflation is up when exactly when it's actually inflation is down. They believe that growth is down. When it's actually up, they believe illegal border crossings are up when they're actually down, they believe that crime is up when it's. Down they may big question vaccines, when in fact vaccines work great. I mean, it goes on and on. It's sort of like, you know, it's like, what was that comic book we used to read when we were kids? It was a Superman thing was. Bizarro World world. Old yeah, right. Everything was the opposite. So. So I you know, there's like, a it's a permission Trump has has helped he's created or he has been abetting sort of like this conspiracist permission structure. And I and I think and there's been, you know, this isn't just me talking off top of my head. I mean, there's been. There were polls before the election saying that I I got one actually right in front of me here. Bear with me. So like saying basically saying this was if so SAPI think said that those people who think that we're living through a record-breaking violent crime wave favored. Trump by 25 points. And there were some other stats in there, too, about inflation. The same thing, people who think. That inflation thus. Favored Trump by something like 25. Points and I was in driving through. Uh, I guess it's the far northwest. Philadelphia. This was last week, couple days after the election and there were all these signs on the on the lamp post saying it's just the four words on it, it said Trump. Safety Harris crime. 

JOHN 

Yes, and you know. 

DON 

Oh yeah, so, so a lot of those signs around here where I live in Harrisburg that that were different, they had Trump closed border Harris, open border, Trump good economy, Harris bad economy. Yeah. Basically it was just drawing the difference between the two. 

DICK 

Pardon me. In, in very stark terms, yeah, you know, stark term, simplistic terms, we might want to call it, but you know this is and and if this is how people are getting there, if this was how 50.5% I think it is at the. Right now, of the voters get if this is where they're getting their predominantly getting their information, you know then then we have that's that's another aspect of that's another crisis in this country and it's like it's an information crisis. It's just, you know how people get there, how they make decisions. You know I I keep thinking again. You know, I'm trying not to be, you know, catastrophize the situation here. But one of Trump's, you know, heroes or models or column is Victor Orban. In I'm I'm blanking. Hungary right? Hungary. Yeah, Hungary. OK. In Hungary. And and what he does and what he has said is that, you know, one of the ways that you sort of rule with a sort of an authoritarian aspect is, you know, you, you you have your own media, you know, you create your own media or you abet your own media. And I, you know, I think that's what we've got now. And I and I think this this is way outside the question that Don asked, but I'll just throw this. Instance. Follows naturally for me is that you know the mainstream media, New York Times, Washington Post, etcetera, etcetera. They've, you know they. I don't know how exactly what the answer is, but but they've got to try to come up with some kind of. A response to all this, and how are they? You know, they going to lop off 50% of their potential readership. I mean that that asking that question is not brand new, but I think the results of this election really, really under score that really serious systemic problem. 

JOHN 

So it's interesting, we've had this for about the past 20 years in American politics, Trump is going is is winning right now by about 3.2 million votes in the popular vote. So not overwhelming. As a victory, it's definitely a victory, and Republicans don't get to say that they won the popular vote very much, so it's a it's a nice thing for the Republicans, and last time was George W Bush's second term. 

DICK 

That's correct. 

JOHN 

And I'm but it translated nevertheless to a very solid victory. Obviously, in the Electoral College. And I'm. I'm thinking that what we see and the kind of. Presidency. He's going to have in the next 4 years. Is is going to be interesting to watch because it does represent a majority of the voters. It was, uh, the votership was down across the country. Uh by I don't know how much something like 8 to 10 million votes total so far. Or. Yeah, that was surprising to a lot of people, since this has been touted as a very. A important election, as you were just talking about, you know, sort of a turning point election and it looks like. It's going to be and I'm wondering why didn't. More people come out to vote. 

DICK 

I know the the New York Times has a story about that very question, and particularly they were focusing on Democrats or democratic leaning voters. You know, I I it certainly took well, everybody got taken by surprise about some aspect of this, but it what took me by surprise was that Harris is getting. At least by last count, roughly 10 million. 10 million fewer votes than Joe Biden got. And you know that. That's that to me, is is astounding. And perhaps, you know, if you don't think about it, if you don't, if if you don't proceed to think about it, it sounds confounding how that could be possible given, you know. 

Speaker 

Yes. 

DICK 

Given the framing of the stakes. 

JOHN 

Can I put it * ****? Can I put it a second way? Which is, we'll we'll make the same point. Which? Is that Trump? If things continue the way it's going, we'll get about the same number of votes he got the last election, you know, not not very different. 

DICK 

Yeah, yeah. 

DON 

Yeah, that's right. 

JOHN 

It's like a I think it's a tick more, but it's roughly in that 74 million exactly. And whereas Harris is gonna underperform Joe Biden, as you said by what 7 to 10 million votes and votes, yeah, and what? 

DICK 

And then we both, yeah, they're still counting in California, but whatever. 

JOHN 

So we have with. With Trump we have a a support group that's stayed the same. And with uh, with Harris. Well, a lot of different stuff happened. And and she's just she's lagging badly behind Joe Biden. It's why didn't those Democratic voters turn in? 

DICK 

Well, I mean, there's probably, you know, there's probably 10 different reasons, sure. And you know, I can't help thinking. You know that there are some. Well, I kind of thinking, I mean there's proof of this that there's some racism and misogyny. You know, a double dose there too, for for, you know, for a lot of people or some people just couldn't abide one or the fact that she was a woman or they couldn't abide the fact that she was, you know, African American slash. Asian Indian excuse me and I can't help thinking that that's one of the one of the factors. I mean I think there I think she suffered. I'm going to come back to that in a second but I don't want to put it all on that but I you know I think there's that you know she I think she got perceived. By a lot of people as the incumbent, as it, you know, the incumbent and had to take the heat for being to come or that she didn't separate herself out enough from from Biden, who is, you know, historic or whatever. He's widely unpopular for, you know, complicated reasons that I think are unfair, but that's another story. And. And, you know, she I guess she didn't separate herself. Enough. I mean, she did some things and she proposed some things that Joe Biden didn't. Didn't you know? Didn't propose? But you know, I guess, you know, I think she just suffered from that. She maybe suffered from the fact that that she only had, you know, 100 days to do this. And, you know, I think there's a lot of people feel that Joe Biden, even amongst some Democrats, that Joe Biden's stated that he was determined to run for a second term and he should have been. Announced that he was never going to run for a second term so that Democrats could have had a competitive primary. Gray and that hair. It wouldn't look like it was being handed to Harris. I mean, I think there's. I think there's a lot of reasons in that Stew, but I come back to the race and misogyny aspect of it in one respect that I think really jumped out at me since we're talking also how these things come down in the southern swing states. Pennsylvania, and you might have heard this in Allentown. There's a huge Hispanic population in, in, in, in around Allentown. And there's and there's a popular. Their Hispanic radio host who talked was talking about the election a lot during the last few bunch of weeks and he was taking a lot of calls from Hispanic men. Uh, who were saying there was just no way that they were going. This was Hispanic. So, you know, to take the race issue out of it in this respect, the Hispanic mess. So there was no way they're going to vote for Harris because they came and they and and the host radio host was explaining this later on in some interviews that their attitude was their attitude is or their belief is that. Culturally, you know, they're very patriot. 

Speaker 

No. 

DICK 

And you know this idea, you know, they had that a woman was gonna run the country was just unacceptable to them. You know, women are in the house. And they did do that. Take care of the family and the children and, you know, and then and the host of who was explaining all this, he he voted for Harris and he said so and he was trying to argue his points with these, these men who were calling in. And they wouldn't. They just wouldn't. They wouldn't go with it, they wouldn't abide it. And if you look actually and then if you look. At the exit. Polls and how solid. How the there's this huge solid majority of Hispanic men in swing state, Pennsylvania voting for voting for Trump. And so this whole notion that we all had, that we all but many of us had that after the Madison Square Garden event where the comedian made jokes about Port Puerto Rico being a floating island of a garbage. And we're all saying, oh boy, that's, you know, Puerto Rico is going to vote on mass now for Harris because of. That well, it's certainly that that doesn't play off this, this patriarchal thing, this massage, this thing. If you want to call that it, it really was a factor. Now why, you know there? I'm sure there are a lot of other reasons why why Harris's figures. We're we're we're so we're so dampened but those are the ones that come to mind. Immediate immediately, you guys may have other. 

DON 

Yeah, there's a couple of things that I've seen in, in follow-ups. The Hispanic population went for Trump in numbers that nobody and. Stated and one of the reasons I think and John and I grew up in Southern California, we knew a lot of Hispanic people, a lot of Hispanic families. I did anyway, John, and agree with me on this, if you will. The Hispanic families in the United States are mostly conservative. They are not liberal. 

JOHN 

Hmm. 

DON 

People, especially when it comes to culture. 

DICK 

Culture. 

DON 

And that's a good reason why they may have followed Trump in although most of them quoted the economy, most of them said, you know, they were having trouble paying their mortgage and buying groceries. The other thing that I noticed was that among white women. Trump took 50% of the vote again. 

DICK 

Straight time third straight election. 

DON 

Exactly, exactly. And and the other thing that occurs to me is there were huge protest votes in New York and in Michigan from Arab area areas where they didn't vote for Biden in the primary as a protest. 

DICK 

Yeah. 

DON 

Against what they perceived as the Biden Harris lack of support for Palestinians. I don't know if they stayed home in Michigan because Michigan went for Trump this year. Yeah, and and New York did not. New York went for for Harris. But I'm wondering if if that was enough, if their numbers. 

Speaker 

Right. 

DON 

Stayed if they stayed away, and that was enough to affect their numbers in Michigan, I don't know. But that was another thing that occurred to me as we were looking over. The reasons why and why not. 

DICK 

Look, look at this way. Trump's run three times. He's beaten at at both times. He won. He beat women. Daniel loss. He lost to a white guy. There's there's something to that. You know, I don't know whether you know, we we at this point you despite the fact that there have been women heads of State and everywhere from. Britain to India and any number of others, we Israel, we. I mentioned I don't know if we're gonna see one in our lifetimes. There's just. There's something. There's something that. But, well, I I I, I just kept returning to that point, but I take, I take Don's points as well. And you mentioned about white women, you know, wasn't we? We all thought that. Reproductive rights was going to be a major factor in a Harris victory and and then you look at the you turn out, you look at the exit polls and the exit polls are. Always, you know, correct. At least that you know that at least the initial ones. But abortion was abortion was way down on the list. It, it turns out, and. 

JOHN 

And in several states where Trump won or flipped, the state passed abortion rights laws. And the. I mean, it's such a it's such a wacky election. Missouri. Yes, I think I think Missouri might have done that. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

DON 

Arizona, I think. Did that too, yeah. 

JOHN 

Yes. Arizona did it. Places like you know. 

DICK 

You have that, yeah. You have to ask yourself that that there was something about not voting for Harris that that. Really, you know, that really resonated, you know, with people I I have to say, and I I'm going to sort of segue a little bit just because if I don't mention this now let me forget so. So even though all right, all the things we've just said despite all that, despite her being 10 million votes. 

JOHN 

Please. 

DICK 

Down or whatever. Yeah, he's he's winning a. He won the. Popular vote as, as John said, the last time it happened was 04. The last time before that, Republicans won the popular vote was 1988. So yes, he he has won the popular vote and that's that's, you know, that's significant. But it's very, very, you know, it's modest, it's small. And one of the things that I've seen among optimists on the left, for example in the last few days is that. 

JOHN 

Certainly is. 

DICK 

Well, you know he he because of the modest size of this, this popular vote V2 or 3 million votes whatever he that he doesn't have a mandate, quote UN quote doesn't have a mandate. Well. I big deal, right? That's what I say about that big deal. He'll say. You know what? What Republicans do, and this didn't begin with with Mag or Trump. You know what Republicans do is it doesn't matter, they it doesn't matter what what margin they won by. They just go ahead and they govern as if they had a mandate. And as you guys may remember in two. 1000 when George W Bush lost the popular vote and he got dragged across the finish line by 5 Republican appointees on the Supreme Court, he he he, he said. Well, I'm still good. And and he said it in his inaugural, you know, I'm just take this as a mandate to govern. And he pushed these heavy upper income tax cuts. It was. One of the first things they did in the in the New Year in two. One and it it didn't matter. You know that they they didn't take it, you know, whereas the Democrats are much more, you know. Well, you know, we have to. Be cautious and. Careful here. We didn't win an overwhelming victory. You know, Republicans don't care about that. They they just do what they do. And you know you you create your own. You create your, you create your narrative. And it's up there. It's up to everybody else. To to keep. 

JOHN 

Up with it, it seems to me, too that just in terms of rail politique that. Winning equals a mandate. If you get into the house and the other guy doesn't, that right? I mean it, it just counts for everything and just, you know. 

Speaker 

Right, right. 

DICK 

Well, yeah, especially if the entire party is pulling. You know, they're all pulling, you know, they're all taking their lead from Trump. You know, there's not going to be any kind of, you know, independent Senate, you know, that's going to. Be the great. Deliberative body you. Know they're they're not going to be deliberative, they're going to defer to everything Trump wants. And so and the House may still be Republican. So, you know. The Republicans, they all roll in the same direction. And here's the Democrats going to be all fighting with each other for the next couple of years. And so it's a perfect. It's, you know, you, you you got your political capital and you spend your political capital and and hopefully it will not hurt too many people, although you know, we'll see what happens with mass deportations. You know, there was a there was a a little debate went on in my. Household with some. Friends that were over last night and their idea. And and one of the arguments was that they made was well, you know, this mass deportation thing, it's going to be and it's going to cost trillions and trillions. It's going to be chaotic. It's going to, you know, take people out. Of the economy. Etcetera, etcetera. So for those reasons, he won't do that. Trump won't do it. And I'm like, are you kidding me at this point, you're not gonna. Take take these people. 

DON 

What their word they do, they do exactly what they say they're going to do. Yeah. And he is appointed. Stephen Miller is now back in in the this is. And he's the guy that's. 

Speaker 

Right. 

DICK 

Oh yeah, policy advisor of some sort. Yeah. 

DON 

Right. And and he is named as the borders are that. Border Guard who's ready to throw everybody out. So yeah, he's going to do it. 

Speaker 

Yeah, yeah. 

DON 

Well, there's two things that that come to mind here. The first when you're talking about how the parties operate, it reminds me of a joke that we used to tell in the Pennsylvania Senate I worked. For the Democrats. And the joke was. Because. The Republicans go into caucus and they come out with a format the Democrats go into caucus and they come out with 10 different orders of pizza. And that's that's kind of how it always works is the Democrats fight amongst themselves and the Republicans pull together no matter what, and they've done that behind Trump. And we always say, how do these moderate Republicans stand? Trump, well, you know, and in the chance that he won, which he did, now they're all behind him, that he's got the Senate, the house, he has, the Supreme Court. Is there anything that can stop him? And I guess my question to ***, ****, is you were talking. About. A big a paradigm shift here. A big shift in how the the country runs. This certainly looks like a huge shift in the way the country will run, at least for the next 4 years. And do you think it will go on beyond that? Yeah. Well, it it it. Very. Yeah, it very well. Could it kind of, you know, it may depend on how. 

Speaker 

So. 

DICK 

You know if if, if, if they screw it up, if they screw up mass deportations and it and it's so, so botched and chaotic and crazy that that even some, you know, of the persuadable voters who went for Trump at the end might say, well, you know, this isn't really what we wanted. This isn't really working out. You know. Arguably it could swing back the other way, but I think this time, you know, I think this time they're more the the Trump people were more prepared for what to do. And and if that's the case, you know, this could. This could just. To sort of, I was saying at the top that this could go on for. Some years and and for the foreseeable future and what it's going to actually and it already is, it's going to prompt a lot of people who are in opposition to to all this, to debate as they are right now. What what to do? What's? What? What do you what do you do next? What is the form of pushing back? Is it, you know? Do you do you do. But you know I don't know. There was a million person resistance March right after right after Inauguration Day in 2017 that you know that the huge resistance marches. Everybody was so proud. We had resistance T-shirts. We being people like I. 

JOHN 

Right. 

DICK 

You know, I saw them anyway. Resistance T-shirts and and, you know, I mean, so, so how about what about if we tried that now what if he then sends in the? I mean I'm being catastrophizing a little bit just for the sake of argument, what if he sends in the military to quell protest. Supreme courts going to sake. Hey it's an official. You know, so, so so. What form can these? Can these protests take, or is it just? A question of. You know, everybody just keeps, you know, writing and communicating and with each other and and. And I don't know, because there's a lot of people right now and and there might be people in your circle that. That are saying. This, and I'm partly in this circle myself. Just like you know, exhausted by the whole thing and just need mental need, mental health breaks. And I know a lot of people who are just, they're not watching the news. They're turning off. You know, the cable news is ratings have plummeted in the last week. People can't take it. Anymore they can't. Listen to you. People need a break and you know. So what does that mean? You know what? Where? Where is it? A lot of people I know who are on Elon Musk's ex. 

Speaker 

Yes. 

DICK 

Normally Twitter, a lot of people who know who are on there are getting off X as a protest to, to Musk, and they're going to a couple other social media sites whose. Guy and threads, yeah. And but then the. But now there's a debate about that. No, no, no. Some people say don't don't leave Musks ex because then it'll just be like this, you know, it'll be a. It'll be a real sewer. So we need some people there with brains to, you know, to to have that conversation that you need and to and make it to at least keep it, you know, somewhat. I don't know, but not even handed, but not so asymmetric. Let's put it that. Way so people aren't. Aren't sure what to and all these people who didn't who stopped subscribing to the Washington Post because Jeff Bezos that wouldn't do the endorsement? You know, I my attitude is it's like, no, no. No, don't put. You made your point. Now you've got to subscribe back to the Washington Post because if you, you know, you, you you need those reporters who are trying to do the good work they, they need support, they need financial support. We can't just, you know, can't sort of preemptively. Surrender. But this is what a lot of this I think millions of people are wrestling with this right now is in some ways pretty profound. I have never seen anything like that before. 

JOHN 

One person we whose name we have almost not mentioned at all. Is, uh. Is Harris's name? And I'm wondering she from one perspective, you could say she got started with only 90 days. Yeah, remaining to do a a campaign and from that perspective, she seemed to have. Done pretty well. In 90 days. 

DICK 

Yeah. 

JOHN 

But she was also attacking against really heavy prevailing headwinds. I think we all and and as you started off this half hour, ****. The the notion that some people were refusing to vote for a woman, some black men, it looks like didn't want to vote for a woman of color. At least it's softened. I mean, they went from a around 90% in favor of Democrats to 77%, but that's still softening. I mean that's that's. Really sort of an important swing. 

DICK 

Sure. 

JOHN 

So I wonder, does does she come back from? This I mean people. Have lose losers have come back to win again. Well, we just saw a. 

DICK 

Yeah. You know it's. Terrible, yeah. 

JOHN 

Guy, do that. 

DICK 

You know, it's a this is a. This is a terrible thing to say because it's going to sound, you know, it's going to sound like. I'm not supportive of. Of of candidates of color. But I'm going to, but I I mean, it's like I really I think you know, assuming we have free elections in four years and I'm not being, you know, I'm not trying to be too black when I say that in my humor. Yeah, it's pretty black. But, you know, I think I think Democrats have to have to find themselves. 

JOHN 

That's pretty. That's pretty black. **** wasn't just. 

DICK 

A a highly competent, charismatic white guy next time and I hate to say that, but and I'm and I just had a I just as I was saying that had this deja vu from when I was at the Philadelphia. Fire. And this is 34 years ago I was covering city politics in Philadelphia and Wilson Goode. I was the mayor, the first black mayor, and he had a terrible second term, and everybody was, you know, that there was all this debate about who's going to run for mayor the next time. And I was the city. I wasn't a columnist, but I was the city reporter when I was picking up. All over the city, including from some, you know, Black Ward leaders and people like that, was that we've got to run, you know, we need to find a a white guy next time. We can't have a second black candidate in a row because they just thought, you know, they didn't support the idea that it was going to be a racist choice for a lot of voters. But they were just trying to sort of be realistic. And so I I I wrote this, you know, this really long piece that took me a long time to write. And and it ran, I mean it ran on a Sunday morning and Wilson good. Was in the pulpit somewhere that day, and he stood in the pulpit brand, brandishing the front page of the Philadelphia Inquirer. And you know this racist story. But I will stand by that story because Ed Rendell was the next candidate and he won. So yeah. 

JOHN 

So. So we're talking about Gavin. We talk about Gavin Newsom. I mean, he's he's a white male. He's cares, man. 

Speaker 

Aha. 

DICK 

Yeah. Yeah, Eric. 

JOHN 

He's pretty costy, he's pretty costy. 

DICK 

And he? Yeah, he's pretty coasty. So that kind of counts to me counts against him. I like Andy Beshear of Kentucky. I don't. I don't know how charismatic he is. But you know he has the right profile, you know, from a red state, he just, you know, he's won, really. He's he's won comfortably there even when the votes have gone, you know, red and other elect another campaigns the same on the same ballot. So you know it's somebody like that I mean you know the red the the the Democrats broke. The. Democrats lost 3 elections in a row, 198019884 and 1988, and I was like, what are they going to do? How they going to come out of this? And they came back with Bill Clinton, White Guy from Arkansas, White Southerner, you know, that's I I hate to say this like you know, it's just on paper. I think they have to do that. Now the question is, is Kamala Harris. When she come back from that, I think she'll probably try. Right. You know, because I think she figured out you run once and you've got this, this, this donor base potentially and and some kind of an apparatus. But I would not. I I I had this I don't know. I mean I think the Democrats tend to when was the last time the Democrats nominated somebody a second time who lost the first time if I'm not mistaken it would be. Adlai Stevenson and. Exactly 70 years ago, yeah, so. 

DON 

The other thing that occurs to me too is is I I remember seeing a headline. I think it was in USA TODAY where it said with Trump in the cancel culture lead. She's, you know, again talking about social issues. And again, when you start talking about a, a white male who could run for president, one of the names that pops up is Josh Shapiro, who's the Governor of Pennsylvania and almost made the cut as her vice president. But of course, the thing that got him was that whole Israel, Gaza thing, and that that kept keeping up. And I'm sure that was one of the things that was a A minus check mark. 

Speaker 

Mm-hmm. 

DON 

On. His Ledger again, if we're talking about four years from now. 

Speaker 

Winter. 

DON 

Or I don't know if if Trump thinks he could run again eight years from now. I I don't know. I don't know how that will work out. He has a he has a Supreme Court on his side. So they may say, well, it has to be consecutive terms. He could do another consecutive term and I don't know how the Supreme Court is going to interpret the. 

JOHN 

Well, I ohh boy. 

DON 

Constitution. Now, since they since they. 

DICK 

A constitutional amendment that that, that bars that. 

JOHN 

Yeah, I don't think you're gonna have. I don't think you have more than a total of 10 year. 

DICK 

Yes, no matter how it goes. So he could run, win again and then step down 2 years into his third term. So you know, you know what I you know what I was thinking the other day was that if if real life if real life was like if real life was like the writers room in a lot of these political. 

DON 

DICK 

You know, boilerplate, boilerplate, boil pot series that you see like the diplomat, the diplomat on Netflix, for example. If real life was like that, you know what happened now Joe Biden would would resign. Right now, to make Kamala Harris the. 

JOHN 

First black female president for two months. Yes, yes. 

DON 

One of her aides suggested that as a matter. 

DICK 

Oh, really? You know, I mean, why the heck not? I mean, what's what's, what difference does it make? And what? 

DON 

Of fact, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Make her the 47th. 

DICK 

Play would play it would, it would play. President would play with Trump's head and and all his 40, all his red hats with 47 on it would be all screw. But. You know, I mean I this is I. This is. I'm in the I'm in the absurdist realm now that you know I I can't help going there. The other thing I was thinking just in the absurdist realm is I was thinking couple things. One is that Maya Rudolph is now available for extensive location film shooting yes 12 months of the year. Tim Walls is now the gonna be the assume the the answer to a trivia quest. Question through the contest question and and Merrick Garland is is Mayor, Mayor, maybe he's maybe he is deceased and we don't know it but that there's things that he could have done three years ago that he didn't do it so he can't pack his bags soon enough kind of a dead man dead man walking. Those are just three random things I was thinking about today. 

JOHN 

Right. 

DON 

Before we and Tim Waltz, when you were talking about that, it reminded me of a Saturday Night Live bit that they did just a couple of weeks ago. Where was the game show and the whole idea was to remember people's names. And Tim Kaine came out. And said, who am I? And nobody knew, right? I think we have to stay away from people named Tim with only two syllables. Maybe that would be, yeah. Something. Maybe all Democrats might be able to agree on. And for those of you who don't remember, Tim Kaine was, was Hillary Clinton's running mate back when back when the the first Trump. 

JOHN 

That's. Right. Well, that's. 

DICK 

Yes, yes, in 2016. 

JOHN 

Also, ****, we could of course stay talking to you for a whole hour here, but I I figure you probably have other things like eating that you might want to do or drinking heavily, which I might want to. You we want to thank you for coming back on. I think this is as good a a discussion of what just happened as as you can get it's. 

DICK 

Ohh, thank you and thank you guys for prompting me and then adding all your quality observations. 

JOHN 

Know. To be continued, **** Paulman, ladies and gentlemen, and thanks again. 

DICK 

All right. Thank you guys.